Comments on: The Challenge Of Caring http://www.owlsparks.com/decisions/the-challenge-of-caring/ Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:08:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Life after Beyond Borders – pragmatic idealist http://www.owlsparks.com/decisions/the-challenge-of-caring/comment-page-1/#comment-3938 Life after Beyond Borders – pragmatic idealist Sun, 09 May 2010 18:26:34 +0000 http://www.owlsparks.com/?p=1031#comment-3938 [...] guess with all the posts I’ve written on my blog, it is understandable for one to assume I would look for a job in the non-profit sector after graduation and go “save the [...] [...] guess with all the posts I’ve written on my blog, it is understandable for one to assume I would look for a job in the non-profit sector after graduation and go “save the [...]

]]> By: Life after Beyond Borders – Ruby Ku http://www.owlsparks.com/decisions/the-challenge-of-caring/comment-page-1/#comment-2933 Life after Beyond Borders – Ruby Ku Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:15:53 +0000 http://www.owlsparks.com/?p=1031#comment-2933 [...] guess with all the posts I’ve written on my blog, it is understandable for one to assume I would look for a job in the non-profit sector after graduation and go “save the [...] [...] guess with all the posts I’ve written on my blog, it is understandable for one to assume I would look for a job in the non-profit sector after graduation and go “save the [...]

]]> By: Be the change: Challenging my Idealism, by Ruby Ku | Justice for all http://www.owlsparks.com/decisions/the-challenge-of-caring/comment-page-1/#comment-1794 Be the change: Challenging my Idealism, by Ruby Ku | Justice for all Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:15:59 +0000 http://www.owlsparks.com/?p=1031#comment-1794 [...] guess with all the posts I’ve written on my blog, it is understandable for one to assume I would look for a job in the non-profit sector after graduation and go “save the [...] [...] guess with all the posts I’ve written on my blog, it is understandable for one to assume I would look for a job in the non-profit sector after graduation and go “save the [...]

]]> By: Elisa http://www.owlsparks.com/decisions/the-challenge-of-caring/comment-page-1/#comment-1591 Elisa Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:17:14 +0000 http://www.owlsparks.com/?p=1031#comment-1591 Hey Ruby! I'll start by saying that my choice of wording on that first one was probably not the best. I was saying that currently a lot of people do not engage in the compassion and caring that many non-profit workers do. So for now, that WOULD have to be a special or 'not the norm' for many people. Would it be fantastic if everyone felt that way? Yes. Is it happening currently? No. As for words and fighting, I think that is exactly what we are doing. We both want a better world and keep chasing the logistics around because of vocabulary. Overanalyzing when unnecessary. I would however note that people that do not sound idealistic might not want people to suffer either. Just because people may not have the same view of the process doesn't mean they don't want the same end result. Ending suffering sounds like a pretty good idea to me. :) Hey Ruby! I’ll start by saying that my choice of wording on that first one was probably not the best. I was saying that currently a lot of people do not engage in the compassion and caring that many non-profit workers do. So for now, that WOULD have to be a special or ‘not the norm’ for many people. Would it be fantastic if everyone felt that way? Yes. Is it happening currently? No.

As for words and fighting, I think that is exactly what we are doing. We both want a better world and keep chasing the logistics around because of vocabulary. Overanalyzing when unnecessary. I would however note that people that do not sound idealistic might not want people to suffer either. Just because people may not have the same view of the process doesn’t mean they don’t want the same end result. Ending suffering sounds like a pretty good idea to me. :)

]]> By: Ruby http://www.owlsparks.com/decisions/the-challenge-of-caring/comment-page-1/#comment-1587 Ruby Wed, 07 Oct 2009 17:51:47 +0000 http://www.owlsparks.com/?p=1031#comment-1587 1) Can you explain what you mean by this? “We shouldn't as a society strive to be "special" and rise above the ideals and knowledge we currently have. We should sit happily in our ignorance of such realities, as we have for decades.” 2) Idealism, realism, optimism – I don’t really care which word is used. And I don’t really want to argue over when exactly world peace will break out, or not, and what is a realistic timeframe. I think your questions are legitimate so I am not going to say you’re wrong. I just think sometimes we spend too much time overanalyzing things that’s unnecessary. I sound idealistic is because I don’t want to see people suffer. Not saying I’m going to end human suffering in my life time, but just to say this is what I’m going to do because….why not? 3) We’re not dreaming of a utopia. To be honest, I do think there will be a new set of other problems after climate change is solved and world hunger has ended… OK, that is the reality, but so what if it’s the reality? Reality is based on our own worldviews of the world right? Your reality is probably different from someone else’s reality in Rwanda. 1) Can you explain what you mean by this? “We shouldn’t as a society strive to be “special” and rise above the ideals and knowledge we currently have. We should sit happily in our ignorance of such realities, as we have for decades.”

2) Idealism, realism, optimism – I don’t really care which word is used. And I don’t really want to argue over when exactly world peace will break out, or not, and what is a realistic timeframe. I think your questions are legitimate so I am not going to say you’re wrong. I just think sometimes we spend too much time overanalyzing things that’s unnecessary. I sound idealistic is because I don’t want to see people suffer. Not saying I’m going to end human suffering in my life time, but just to say this is what I’m going to do because….why not?

3) We’re not dreaming of a utopia. To be honest, I do think there will be a new set of other problems after climate change is solved and world hunger has ended… OK, that is the reality, but so what if it’s the reality? Reality is based on our own worldviews of the world right? Your reality is probably different from someone else’s reality in Rwanda.

]]> By: Carlos Miceli http://www.owlsparks.com/decisions/the-challenge-of-caring/comment-page-1/#comment-1584 Carlos Miceli Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:07:39 +0000 http://www.owlsparks.com/?p=1031#comment-1584 I love point B, language discussions are always pointless. I love point B, language discussions are always pointless.

]]> By: Elisa http://www.owlsparks.com/decisions/the-challenge-of-caring/comment-page-1/#comment-1582 Elisa Wed, 07 Oct 2009 04:54:35 +0000 http://www.owlsparks.com/?p=1031#comment-1582 Wow... A.) I apparently can't leave a post for 5 minutes to be away or replies just break loose! B.) Dictionarial terms of words are bullshit. Opitimism means that you will see the best possible and perfect world, regardless of reality. Idealism is a reality in which all of humanity must transcend reality. Realism is a concern for the fact of reality. Success is the favorable or desired result, generally dictated by the expectations of human nature and society. Our "argument" is very similar on all counts, we just keep "fighting" with different words. C.) I guess you are right. I shouldn't say that non-profit folks are "a special breed." It's obvious that most everyone in humanity strives to make a difference in this world, especially due to the "success" of such issues as genocide, hunger, violence against women, etc. We shouldn't as a society strive to be "special" and rise above the ideals and knowledge we currently have. We should sit happily in our ignorance of such realities, as we have for decades. I think non-profit people are special BECAUSE they believe with all their heart in perfection and idealism and devote their lives to that. I apologize for admiring non-profit people that way. D.) The most successful non-profits I have encountered are willing to accept and embrace the "failures" they have making change in society - because change doesn't come easy to anyone. And "successful" non-profits recognize the Challenge of Caring that Carlos references...the fact that the workers within the cause sometimes care more than the people they are trying to convince, and that is what makes non-profit life such a beautiful and all-together painful thing. They don't see "failures" as "failures" because non-profits hold themselves to a different measurement that the rest of us. They strive for perfection, when (in reality) most everyone else strives to get by and be "the best" for a few minutes. They don't care about "failure" becuase they will not give up on their dreams, as some (most) businesses will after bouts of failture. E.) This down-playing of questioning is an unfortunate reality of many non-profit workers I encounter. See, I am a realist. In my purest of hearts I am idealist and I wish that we lived in utopia. I know the issues utopia has in reality, but sometimes I don't care. I just LONG to see the good in people. And then people say I am hurtful and not idealistic and unfair and pessimistic and various other not good adjectives that makes me want to turn and run from ANY issue/ideal you may be promoting. Why do we have to put down other people's questions in order to promote our idealism? Why do I have to be wrong so that you can be right? F.) Along the same lines those same non-profits also embrace the idealism within the constraints of reality. I'm sorry, but it is foolish to believe that world peace is going to break out tomorrow. Or next week. Or next month. I'll stop short because I still hold out hope for maybe world peace in the next year, but I also recognize the possibility that it might not happen. Given the basics of scientic theory (which SOME foolish and realistic and apparently not good enough people base their thought in) you must consider both the plausibilities and IMplausibilities to any hypothesis in order to validate it's truth. But I guess it's only a segment on the population of the population that thinks this way, why should we consider their opinions and feelings in such lofty and reaching ideals? Wow…
A.) I apparently can’t leave a post for 5 minutes to be away or replies just break loose!
B.) Dictionarial terms of words are bullshit. Opitimism means that you will see the best possible and perfect world, regardless of reality. Idealism is a reality in which all of humanity must transcend reality. Realism is a concern for the fact of reality. Success is the favorable or desired result, generally dictated by the expectations of human nature and society. Our “argument” is very similar on all counts, we just keep “fighting” with different words.
C.) I guess you are right. I shouldn’t say that non-profit folks are “a special breed.” It’s obvious that most everyone in humanity strives to make a difference in this world, especially due to the “success” of such issues as genocide, hunger, violence against women, etc. We shouldn’t as a society strive to be “special” and rise above the ideals and knowledge we currently have. We should sit happily in our ignorance of such realities, as we have for decades. I think non-profit people are special BECAUSE they believe with all their heart in perfection and idealism and devote their lives to that. I apologize for admiring non-profit people that way.
D.) The most successful non-profits I have encountered are willing to accept and embrace the “failures” they have making change in society – because change doesn’t come easy to anyone. And “successful” non-profits recognize the Challenge of Caring that Carlos references…the fact that the workers within the cause sometimes care more than the people they are trying to convince, and that is what makes non-profit life such a beautiful and all-together painful thing. They don’t see “failures” as “failures” because non-profits hold themselves to a different measurement that the rest of us. They strive for perfection, when (in reality) most everyone else strives to get by and be “the best” for a few minutes. They don’t care about “failure” becuase they will not give up on their dreams, as some (most) businesses will after bouts of failture.
E.) This down-playing of questioning is an unfortunate reality of many non-profit workers I encounter. See, I am a realist. In my purest of hearts I am idealist and I wish that we lived in utopia. I know the issues utopia has in reality, but sometimes I don’t care. I just LONG to see the good in people. And then people say I am hurtful and not idealistic and unfair and pessimistic and various other not good adjectives that makes me want to turn and run from ANY issue/ideal you may be promoting. Why do we have to put down other people’s questions in order to promote our idealism? Why do I have to be wrong so that you can be right?
F.) Along the same lines those same non-profits also embrace the idealism within the constraints of reality. I’m sorry, but it is foolish to believe that world peace is going to break out tomorrow. Or next week. Or next month. I’ll stop short because I still hold out hope for maybe world peace in the next year, but I also recognize the possibility that it might not happen. Given the basics of scientic theory (which SOME foolish and realistic and apparently not good enough people base their thought in) you must consider both the plausibilities and IMplausibilities to any hypothesis in order to validate it’s truth. But I guess it’s only a segment on the population of the population that thinks this way, why should we consider their opinions and feelings in such lofty and reaching ideals?

]]> By: Ruby http://www.owlsparks.com/decisions/the-challenge-of-caring/comment-page-1/#comment-1581 Ruby Wed, 07 Oct 2009 03:58:49 +0000 http://www.owlsparks.com/?p=1031#comment-1581 OK, me defending Carlos here. He didn't mean people who work in non-profit don't care if they fail. I think he meant, even if they did fail, it's not like they're going to say "OK this sucks I don't care about human rights anymore and give up." Instead, they go, "Why couldn't I do more?! Why don't I have all the answers? Must try harder tomorrow. " But yes I do agree we have to be more results driven. Want to see something cool? http://www.good.is/post/evaluating-systems-change/ OK, me defending Carlos here. He didn’t mean people who work in non-profit don’t care if they fail. I think he meant, even if they did fail, it’s not like they’re going to say “OK this sucks I don’t care about human rights anymore and give up.” Instead, they go, “Why couldn’t I do more?! Why don’t I have all the answers? Must try harder tomorrow. ”

But yes I do agree we have to be more results driven. Want to see something cool?
http://www.good.is/post/evaluating-systems-change/

]]> By: Ruby http://www.owlsparks.com/decisions/the-challenge-of-caring/comment-page-1/#comment-1580 Ruby Wed, 07 Oct 2009 03:55:41 +0000 http://www.owlsparks.com/?p=1031#comment-1580 Or when we finally decide to all stand up and say, "This is not acceptable?", then the "impossible" can definitely happen. Or when we finally decide to all stand up and say, “This is not acceptable?”, then the “impossible” can definitely happen.

]]> By: Ruby http://www.owlsparks.com/decisions/the-challenge-of-caring/comment-page-1/#comment-1579 Ruby Wed, 07 Oct 2009 03:51:00 +0000 http://www.owlsparks.com/?p=1031#comment-1579 But who said we have to achieve all of it within our life time? It's not about us, nor our achievement. Many great people in the past didn't live to see the results of the work? We just do what we can, right? In that case, quoting Rebecca Thorman, gap between reality and vision is how our source of energy. So being idealistic doesn't hurt, all it means is the next generations will witness it for us. Nothing is impossible. I don't think many grandparents thought they'd see a Black president in the States? Why are people so afraid of idealism? But who said we have to achieve all of it within our life time? It’s not about us, nor our achievement. Many great people in the past didn’t live to see the results of the work? We just do what we can, right? In that case, quoting Rebecca Thorman, gap between reality and vision is how our source of energy. So being idealistic doesn’t hurt, all it means is the next generations will witness it for us. Nothing is impossible. I don’t think many grandparents thought they’d see a Black president in the States? Why are people so afraid of idealism?

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