There are two ways to do things:
You can talk about the things you’re going to do, and then do them.
Or you can just do them.
Sadly, people seem to value more the former way of action.
The one that makes a big fuss about it.
The one that needs selfish justification.
The one that’s fake.
The problem is we encourage this type of behavior. We recognize the “talk-and-doers” more than the “just-doers.”
The moment we stop glorifying those that go “look at my good work!” and start recognizing just good work, the world will be a better place.
No wonder the best ones stay hidden. They choose anonymity over prostitution.
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“No wonder the best ones stay hidden. They choose anonymity over prostitution.”
Love that line! And so true!
I like how you always blog quick, short and straight to the point. This post is no different. Well said, Carlos.
Win.
Why blog about how I’m going to change the world? I’m just going to go out and do it.
I think you can talk about it, and do it – the two don’t have to be exclusive – they CAN go hand in hand. Action is obviously much more important that talk, but talk is much more important than nothing. Words have the power to raise awareness, change perspectives, and INSPIRE action. If you’re all talk and no action, people will see right through you – you have to walk the walk as well.
I agree with Matt here. You don’t HAVE to do both, but it certainly helps. All talk and no action doesn’t accomplish nearly as much as it could. All action and no talk is not nearly as effective as motivating a team of people to join you in your mission. A healthy marriage of the two is ideal.
A vision without a task is but a dream,
A task without a vision is drudgery,
A vision and a task is the hope of the world.
From a church in Sussex, England c.1730
Damn Carlos. You read my mind. Everything you said here is so true. I was actually going to chat about this with a friend of yours. (Since she is not fake). In how people are like “look at me” and assenting with one another and not being sincere with themselves. You don’t know how many people I’ve seen who are always praising their “favorite” and acting like best friends or something.
There are always times “we” disagree with one another and don’t have the courage to step up and be upfront about it. Instead “we” sugarcoated with “I love your post” or ” your awesome”, “your the best”. Frankly, it’s pathetic!
“No wonder the best ones stay hidden. They choose anonymity over prostitution.”
That sentence made me giggle.
Every truthful post Carlos. Kuddos.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: we praise each other way too much.
The funny thing about this is I know most of the people who are going to agree with you on this post are actually the “Attention whores”. What do you call that? Hypocrite? Tsk, Tsk.
I will certainly concede this. I really get tired of it. You do good stuff, I do good stuff – let’s stop patting ourselves on the back so much, and just get it done.
Yea, but who has time to find stuff on their own. If we all hoped to just find good work, we would find sporadic things here and there, but not great work. Great work does need marketing. It needs the talk behind it. If the Yankees weren’t on tv, had millions in payroll and celebrity players, would you care that they are great? Prob not. It’s the talk that draws us in.
Sure sometimes Google or luck, or god forsake the library hooks you up with something great, but more often than not we need a push from somewhere to see it.
RSS and word of mouth are more than enough marketing in 95% of the cases.
But how did you find those RSS Feeds? Someone promoting them on Twitter? Maybe a top 10 bloggers for “x” list? Actually, it’s how I got to this post…
I’m not disagreeing with the principle, just that its unrealistic to just find something. Everything is planted in a place for a reason. Even word of mouth. The person that told you prob heard it from the news or a commercial or from a post, etc.
All I’m saying is that there’s a line between basic self-promotion, and whoring yourself. And you my friend know the line because you’ve never crossed it.
Haha, thanks! I agree with you there. Unfortunately in my world of Internet Marketing and SEO there is way too much over-promotion and not enough authentic promotion with value behind it. I think the core group of top young bloggers gets this and is pushing each other to rock pretty hard.
Yea, and I’m not a fan of whores. They go out of fashion when you get married!
I ate lunch with the CEO of one of the country’s largest investment product firms that no one’s heard of. He told me, “my goal was always to reach for the stars, change the world, and achieve every goal I set my mind to, without anyone having heard of me.”
Notoriety and success are distinct entities. Statements and action are too.
The thing that kills me about “media whores” is the group of people that worship the person. I sit there going, “Don’t you see what I see? Don’t you see this is all smoke and mirrors? Don’t you understand that it’s almost like you are being MANIPULATED into liking something just because someone tells you to like it?”
In most cases, it’s that group of people that worships without critically thinking about WHY they are worshiping that is actually the source of my frustration. It’s the people who hear compliments and love the person who complimented them, without ever judging the character of said complimenter. It’s the people who fall into the trap of putting someone on a pedestal merely because that person spends their entire day talking about how worthy they are of being on the pedestal.
With so much shit coming into our streams at any given time, it’s necessary to give attention and love to the ones who deserve it. It’s necessary to think critically about who we will praise and who we will ignore, because there are people who are depending on the sanctity of our word of mouth. When everyone is doing BIG THINGS and everyone’s post is SO GREAT and everyone loves everyone, we see a stagnation in growth. We see a massive circle jerk where there is absolutely no authenticity or credibility anymore.
And, you know what? I’m done pretending. It’s time I take a stand against something I’m passionate about. I’m sorry if this is out of line and bitchy, but when we talk about things like overt self-promotion, we seem to be talking about the same people. And, they need to stop. Matt Chevy from Life Without Pants is someone that comes to mind. He used to be humble and actually really a cool guy to talk to, but with some relative success, we’ve seen a rise in this machine-like productivity that is supposedly “for the community” but I don’t buy it. I don’t buy it from him and I don’t buy it from a lot of people.
He’s not the only person that does this, but he’s a prominent example. His compliments seem empty, but so many eat them up. His efforts seem noble, but my gut tells me that those are calculated efforts in order to reach some sort of goal.
AND THIS NEEDS TO STOP. I’m sick of it. It makes me want to quit social media all together, because we need to be better than this. We need to be real with each other. We need to find the greatness and we need to pursue the greatness in ourselves.
People start seeing true greatness when we stop paying attention to the people who lavish compliments upon us in order to further their own goals. When we stop loving someone just because he/she is productive and talks about their productivity like it’s a badge of honor. When we start paying attention to those who are trekking their own path to greatness and aren’t looking for ten pats on the back in order to move forward.
We see greatness when we look for it. When we become it. When we ignore the bullshit and make an effort to find the people who are doing, instead of patting themselves on the back for their audience to see.
It’s time we take a stand instead of pretending. We’re all sick of it. We all know what’s going on. Let’s be grown-ups and call a spade a spade. I know I’m not perfect and I’m not claiming to be, but at least, with me, what you see is what you get. I’m not using any of you for my personal gain. I’m letting you in on fragments of my life. You can stay or you can go.
Hate me if you want, but I know I’m saying what a lot of people before me haven’t had the courage to say.
Was with you until that last part.
Fame always changes people. The more we think of ourselves, the better we are compared to other people. Instead of just interacting, we talk at people, instead of to them. We make assumptions about their reactions. We justify our comments.
I’m not saying that out of an assumption, Tyler. I’m saying that because I’ve had the same conversation with almost every person I’ve talked to on this topic. We all have the same frustrations, the same gripes. And, I know for a fact, that I really am speaking for a fairly decent amount of people.
This is just……..wow.
Let me say that again: wow!
I think maybe, we’re getting frustrated at the situation. The situation is that there is a blending of professional and personal in this space, where it was once very cleanly separated.
The way people promote their work is no different from before. IN BUSINESS, when you do something well, you want it to be known so that you gain the respect for your brand, leading to more BUSINESS.
When personal starts to play a role in the BUSINESS aspects of things, is where it can cause some to be upset. You have to remember though, that a personal business person is still a BUSINESS person.
…and I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have a littler personality in business than none at all.
If we’re calling a spade a spade, then call a business person a business person. Don’t call a business person a “personal” person, if they’re not.
I’m going to throw in my signature my site like always do, because I am a business person. I am active in the social media space for business purposes before I’m here for personal purposes. Doesn’t mean there isn’t room for both.
Condemn self promotion all you want, but as long as business has existed, the ones who promote, one way or another, almost always win out.
David
Community Manager, Scribnia.com
@DavidSpinks
David, your point is eloquent and very true. Great perspective!
I COMPLETELY agree David.
The problem is some people lie. That’s where I defend the “frustration.”
For example, you’ve been consistent. I have nothing bad to say about you because you have gone through the business path ever since I’ve known you.
But there have been many fake people.
So, business you say? Ok, just like in business, we are going to destroy fake companies.
Also, you need to be able to see which people see this as business, and which people don’t. Because many people still value the “social” part more. Be careful with those people.
Last, like I told Greg: there’s a very visible line between self-promotion and whoring yourself. And we don’t have to define it to see it.
First of all, I agree with most of what you said Jamie (and I’m with Carlos original post, of course). I can’t stand how many people worship others without questioning anything. I much more prefer people who have opinions, who aren’t afraid to stand up and say “I don’t think so…”, who don’t think the world revolves around them or the people they worship.
I do appreciate your comment here and I don’t think it’s bitchy – I think you have the right to your opinion and I applaud you for swimming upstream a bit and not just patting everyone on the back here.
I’ve met with Matt Chevy a few times to chat, we’ve gone out a few times to celebrate birthdays, and my wife and I have joined Matt and his fiancee for dinner and some improv comedy. We had great times at each.
I’m not sure if you’ve ever had the chance to hang out with Matt beyond the online space, and if you have, than maybe you have more substance behind your claim than I originally thought.
But if you’ve never had the chance to hang out with Matt beyond the online space, let me assure he is far from the picture you paint of him. He’s a very genuine, caring, in it for the good, creative guy. Yes, those people actually exist. He reminds me a lot of myself in some respects, and that’s probably what I get along with him well. From my experiences with Matt, he doesn’t have a secret plot that this is all a part of. He’s living along one day at a time.
I hope I’m not one of these media whores in your eyes. I can assure you I’m not at all – if you know me offline, you wouldn’t even question that. Same goes for Matt. And if you do feel that I am of the same mold, please call me out as well. One can never know how others feel if they don’t speak up (and kudos to you for doing so).
Now if your claims are coming from Matt’s online persona solely, maybe he needs to work on that disconnect so he’s not coming across differently online than he does offline.
Carlos – I’m not worshiping you here
– keep up the great work. I enjoy frequently your online home here to get my mind stimulated and join in meaningful conversations. I truly hope that one day we can connect offline and have a beer (or two).
When I hit Chi-Town, we definitely will!
And play some soccer, are you up for that?
I’m up for it, but I suck at it! You can show me a thing or two
My last name is “Cheuvront”….just saying
Did I hear “soccer”?
Come to Chicago and we’ll show ya a thing or two:)
Oh I will. I’m dying to see some American Futsal…
I’m not a whore. Life’s short and I want to live it freely and experience everything it has to offer…
… Oh, wrong thread.
Not really man, Jamie is on top of you.
Um, Yes.
That’s all I got for now. Driving to Florida… I’ll be interested to see how this pans out.
Safe trip Syd.
Thanks. I’ll be back with thoughts – I just need to gather them and I’m wrapping things up here at the office. In response to your post – and your post alone – brilliantly written, and if I’m part of this over-promoting phenomenon, I’d like to know so I can give myself an attitude adjustment.
This is good stuff – it needs to be said.
Thank you for the words Syd, and again, I don’t know if you are part of this phenomenon or not. but you can figure that out on your own
Jamie your comment deserves applause! A few people have been “venting” about this problem lately. And I too vented about it on my blog a couple weeks ago in this post…
http://diamondkt.blogspot.com/2009/11/youre-personal-branding-yourself-as.html
It’s just like a “whore” in the traditional sense seeks to get gratification from others. Intrinsic gratification just won’t cut it, so they see the need to “strut their stuff” around to everyone, so that they can get as many whistles in their direction and pick-up line attempts as possible.To them, this validation is their ultimate goal and the only thing that keeps them going each day.
Does this sound like a way you want to live day to day? It’s tiring constantly seeking the approval of others, which is all that these media whores are doing. To me, it’s much more gratifying to place all of your effort on actually doing something that you can look back on and realize that you made a significant impact. This self-appreciation is all you should ever need.
Key word Jackie, a friend mentioned it to me earlier and I missed it: Validation.
Hey man, what a cool comment, I agree with you wholeheartedly here. Sadly, I think Jamie’s comment is going to beat everyone else’s this time, though
That’s just because she used the term “circle jerk.”
If you believe in what you are doing you SHOULD be promoting it. You should be shouting it from the rooftops.
I say, let everyone promote the crap out of themselves. If they are fake, it’ll take about 10 seconds for me to see it and start to filter them out.
Sure there is a lot that enters our feed these days. But it’s also easier than ever to filter out noise if you put your mind to it. I want open access to lots of information and self-promotion is how I find out about 75% of the people I decide to intake that information from.
But at the same time, don’t be offended if I cut you off if you suck. If you’re a douchebag people will know. This social media thing is pretty transparent.
Thanks for pointing out the real problem: people WON’T know.
People suck at seeing the truth.
So, yeah, in a hypothetical world, you are right on. In the real world, people are not like you and usually need months to see through the crap. Assuming that they ever do.
Amen.
Well said Adam. If you’re doing honest, good work, there’s no reason that you shouldn’t promote it.
It’s those who are providing BS, and promoting it like it’s gold, that’s the real problem.
David
Community Manager, Scribnia.com
@DavidSpinks
That’s not the problem either. The problem is people not being able to see the BS behind the gold.
That’s what’s worrying.
See, this is where this discussion loses me. Especially because audiences have gotten SO much smarter. Granted, in the niche of writing about ‘how to be social online’ there’s quite a rush to establish credibility, but we’re all acting like everyone should be as adept at navigating the web/content as we are. The people commenting in this thread, on measure, are in the top 2% worldwide in their grasp on how this all works. It’s not that their being FOOLED…it’s that they are slowing learning what and where the best content is. To attack someone like Matt, who may dabble in that space but doesn’t shovel shit products or pimp BECOME A SOCIAL MASTER 30 DAY BOOT CAMPS (that I’m aware of) is such a misdirected tactic.
How can we have an intelligent conversation around the Audience and the Content they find valuable as if we didn’t just witness ten years of shitty reality tv and an actual career for the Jonas Brothers? It’s SUCH a pointless exercise.
I’d say that we are smarter at seeing the money intent behind the BS. But we are dumb as ever on seeing people’s intentions.
Well, what IS bullshit? And: Maybe people just LIKE bullshit. I mean, just look at McDonald’s, Disneyland, SUVs or iPhones. In the end, all of these make some people happy, though in the end they don’t matter.
My question would be: What should be done against the situation you describe? We will never be able to stop people publishing their crap on the web – and that’s the great thing about it. I see it as my obligation to defend even the last SEO sucker on the web or a company like David Allen Co., because the web should be NEUTRAL. And free speech means free speech for all, even though I don’t like some points of view or some marketing techniques.
A social media witchhunt won’t save the day. So instead of that, why not let the whores whore around? Maybe we’ll join them for a drink or two, or maybe we’ll just ignore them. In the end, the world will never be perfect, but we have no control about it either. Every one of us just has control about HIS own life, his own attention and the recommendations and opinions he shares with others.
BS is not about quality or taste. BS is about fake.
Also, I’m not saying that we should kill anyone, just to be clear.
Carlos, the “not killing” part really appeases me!
I’m sure this post will exponentially draw a lot of comments. As bloggers involved in social media and part of some sort of community(s) this strikes a nerve, without a doubt.
I just tweeted: “Sometimes I feel like this social media thing: groups, blogging, cliques, and all the self-promotion is just like high school. Bleh.” Because it’s true. We get hung up on the smallest things. Our world IS bigger than the 100-some Gen Y (or insert your niche here) bloggers online.
Personally, I am not a fan of media whores. However, they will always exist. So instead of getting our panties in a twist, just ignore those bloggers and unsubscribe/unfollow. It doesn’t make them “bad” and the ones who don’t self promote or who are more real to be “good.” It simply cannot. It’s one aspect of life (self promotion) but what about the way they treat their family, how they are with friends, their struggles, their passions, etc. I sort of acknowledge the media whores, take it or leave it, then keep doing my own thing. Just like in life, surround yourself with people that make you happy, inspire you and are real. And remember, to each their own. Their simply isn’t ONE right way.
Shameless plug for a post about surrounding yourself with good people… TOTALLY KIDDING.
But really, Grace, you’re spot on. It’s not just here. It’s everywhere. That’s one of the most glorious things about social media is that if you don’t like it, you don’t have to. I unfollowed 700 people today. 700! It’s not personal but some people were just cluttering my world, or not contributing, or had dropped off the face of the digital planet all together. There are still 700-something people that I follow and that’s all well and good – but really – there’s like 30 of you that I actually give a shit about. The rest is just stuff that I scroll past to see the good bits.
At the end of the day, here’s my stance. Do what you want with your obnoxious promotion – I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m not going to hate on you for it (I’m trying to grow up here), I will just disconnect from you and your channels and where you continue to blast your shit incessantly.
I don’t love or hate anyone in social media. I have a life outside of this. One coffee beats any number of tweets or emails.
Hell yes.
Apart from those who it is not physically possible to connect with offline (like yourself), I’m much more interested in hanging out somewhere than tweeting/Facebooking/Linkedining/whatever.
These words are important. But our facial expressions and hand gestures are even more so.
“One coffee beats any number of tweets or emails.”
Best thing I’ve read in this thread yet.
No Grace, I’m tired of just ignoring and unfollowing (which I’ve done already).
I don’t think anyone is “bad”, that’s a harsh word.
Also, why has this become a discussion about self-promotion?
It’s ok to self.promote.
It’s not ok to be fake with people for self-promotion.
There isn’t one right way. But there are many wrong ones.
Unfortunately, I’m also tired of the ignorance in the world but it doesn’t mean I will stop unfollowing, unsubscribing, not welcoming it into my life, etc. for as long as I live. It’s how it is.
Like Sydney said, being adult about this and moving on is great. It feels good. I call that a Twitter Enima Sydney
Also, stomping your feet and whining isn’t the answer…to any problem. That’s just a blanketed statement that I’m seeing here in some of the comments…
Look at what I replied to Rikin. I agree with you on that attitude, except when it comes to my blog. This is where I tell to myself what I don’t like, and let people see.
So what’s the difference between media whoring and advertising/marketing your personal brand so that you can have a future?
Have you lied to people in a personal way to promote yourself?
Or have you just done business?
If the latter, it’s all good.
If the former, you’re a whore.
I agree that there are many of these so called “media whores” out there. I’m not going to name them, but I think none of us are willing to acknowledge it here.
To some extent, we are ALL complicit in this. I mean, what have most of us in the “Gen Y” blogging world done to deserve all this praise and personal branding? I think personally I promote myself too much and I’m trying to change that. I am just a student in college, I haven’t really done that much to improve the world yet, and I’m still young. I feel artificial promoting myself because I know a lot of people who are much better, smarter than me and have accomplished a whole lot more. But they aren’t out there trying to promote themselves on the internet; instead, I’m here. I should probably NOT be here. Therefore I’m admitting I’m guilty of this to some extent.
A lot of people who commented here try to brand themselves too. But none of us are actually willing to criticize ourselves, we are just all pointing fingers and trying to blame other people by saying “they” are media attention whores. The thing is we ALL want to be “internet famous” and we all want hundreds of retweets and comments, and so we’re all trying to promote ourselves to some extent.
But we all are to some extent and maybe we have to step back first, and think about our own involvement in this..Are you willing to take a HARD look at yourself first? Do you think you are able to think about the content and experience you bring to the table, and then compare that to the extent you’re promoting yourself? Why don’t WE all look inside first and try to learn some lessons from all this personal branding talk, and if it seems like we’re overpromoting, take a moment to think about how you can change this strategy to improve yourself and your content before you brand yourself.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – I changed my “niche” bc it turns out I don’t know jack shit about PR – I’m learning.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – I commented here because while we’re in the game of calling people out – I’m down for being called out if I need an attitude adjustment.
I didn’t call anyone out. I think, like Akhila says, it’s something that we all need to think on our own.
I know you didn’t.
Agreed, I’m glad you are able to be self-critical and I think we all need to do that a bit more. If someone tells me I’m being too self promotional, I’m glad to tone it down or change my attitude
So kudos to you for being open to this; I think we all need to be.
I’m not saying we should all get along cause seriously I can’t stand some of your blogs. But for fucks sake build a filter and ignore the people you don’t like. Don’t make a scene, just move a long quietly. Let them build their blogging empires of dirt because no one’s saying you have to read it. More importantly, no one gives a crap if you like or don’t like someone else’s work.
Do your thing and just hope that a few people like it.
Not sure who you’re talking to, so not sure what should I reply.
I’m talking to anyone who directs their thoughts and opinions to someone who didn’t do them any harm. I’m also talking to anyone who supports,applauds, or condones those actions.
Yes, it’s easier to just smile and move along. I do that CONSTANTLY every day.
But on my blog? The one place where I can write about anything I want? Should I just smile there too? Nope, sorry, here’s where I vent.
Sorry Carlos – I wasn’t trying to stop you from venting as of course this is your blog.
I don’t believe in attacking specific people online. I believe in disagreeing in a mature way and ignoring them if it gets to the point where they aren’t helping you grow.
The internet is limitless in its capacity and that’s a beautiful thing. We have to just accept that there is room for everybody and what doesn’t work for me might work for someone else. So why go out of our way to attack someone by telling everyone else that you think they’re doing things wrong? It won’t make you look better and it doesn’t help them either.
We all talk about how we don’t want this to feel like high school anymore but I think that those actions are what keep us from moving on. Holding others back and putting others down won’t help us grow.
All I can say to you Jamie – and the others who feel the same way as you is that I’m sorry my attitude comes across that way. The guy that used to be cool to talk to – is the same guy. I have been VERY VERY transparent on my blog – through everything that I’ve done to where I am today. This year has been a whirlwind, things started happening very fast in my life around the same time I started a blog. I quit my job, sold everything I owned, moved to a new city, got engaged…I’m not pretending at all to be someone I’m not. People can relate to what I’ve been through and I can relate to them. Those who have sat down and had coffee or a drink with me can attest to fact that I am who I say I am.
When I set out to start a blog, I told myself I wanted it to be more than that – I told myself that I wanted an interactive community – I still have a long way to go but I work every day to promote that and am GENUINE with everyone in striving to achieve that. I LOVE talking to people – ask anyone who knows me. It’s not about boosting comment numbers, I don’t win a prize for getting the most blog traffic. At the end of the day, it’s just a blog. But I love the communication, I love being challenged and thinking in new ways, and I love writing.
It’s a shame this is going to turn into whatever it is on a blog post. It’s a grave misconception of who I am and what I’m about. It’s sad, really. I’ve said my piece that I know everyone will be wanting to hear. And that’s it. Agree to disagree. Some people hate me, some people love you, some people think I’m fake, some people think you’re a bitch. We move on. I love what I do and the people I’ve met along the way, and if I become the most hated blogger around – or you manage to convince everyone that I’m a piece of shit, then I’ll pack my bags and say it was a good ride, then go about my life – get married, have kids, spend time with friends and family…life moves on.
This is me playing nice. The banter back and forth about who’s fake and who’s not is pointless. I think there is a lot of great discussion here about the issue. But I believe 100% in what I do, and will continue to do it.
Good for you Matt. Keep doing your thing.
This is not about self-promoting. It’s about the way you portray yourself is Bull****. I don’t think what Matt promotes is fake. I’ve spoken to him and he feels sincere to me. For example , Carlos. They don’t go on acting to be “buddy, buddy” with everyone just to get more followers or to gain people to comment on their post. I have never seen them trying to kiss anyone’s ass like I’ve seen most people in the media. (don’t mentioning any names). I don’t go on praising each and EVERY post , like I’ve seen many people who commented on this exact post do. There are times when I don’t agree and to avoid conflict, I keep it to myself. Lets just be sincere instead of sugar coated it all like a bunch of hypocrites.
Without whoring myself in your comments too much (hehe) I just had one more thought…
This ties to a problem that I mentioned a while back on my own blog. “My problem with personal branding”. It’s this concept that has been developed and catalyzed by social media platforms where professionals are able to build their professional brand to such great levels…without ever providing the value to support it.
A personal brand should be a representation of your actions. You do something, (you can promote it if you like) and then you’re recognized for doing it. What personal branding has become is fake, and dishonest. It’s making yourself look like you’re as valuable as possible, while forgetting what it takes to actually become that valuable.
You might say you can “see through” the ones who aren’t truly providing value, but I’d disagree. There are many who can’t. People are easily deceived. All it takes is convincing a select few people, and the rest will follow suit.
David
Community Manager, Scribnia.com
@DavidSpinks
“There are many who can’t. People are easily deceived. All it takes is convincing a select few people, and the rest will follow suit.”
My point all along David, thank you for expressing this.
I’ll be honest…I’m not sure a discussion about the effects of notoriety and its affect on authenticity can be linear. There’s a big difference between the many shades of having an audience, and while I can understand disappointment with the direction someone takes when they gain a sizable audience, I don’t think it’s fair to attack them for toning their content to that audience.
I read Jamie’s comment as a blended challenge (or attack) towards both the audience and Matt. I share many people’s annoyance at some of the ways in which the rapid emergence of this medium has taken form, but I think we all need to take a step back and realize that the beauty of it is that social media takes whatever form you want it to. This isn’t a communicative medium controlled by corporations, access points, or interested parties. You are your own publisher, and you decide what audience you’re a part of.
Is the audience falling for smoke-screens? What audience HASN’T? There’s a reason that so many idiots are out there claiming to be Social Media Experts; FAR MORE are clueless enough to want insights from someone who Knows. Anyone who is surprised that this lead to a land grab is naive.
Emerging technology will always include this kind of underbelly, and although many of us choose to just share our stories without any real Goals in mind I’m not sure it’s fair to jump on someone who thinks they can really offer a particular audience Value by sharing topical content.
An audience responds until it doesn’t get anything out of their content source. Then they leave quickly. I have a lot of experience with digital communities now, and I can guarantee you that no one spends any significant time within one that doesn’t provide value for them. The platforms we’re using are democratic. Sure, successfully building an audience or community can definitely lead to ‘perks’ and benefits; money, notoriety, access, influence…but in the case of this new, digital world, you simply cannot blame either party. The system is not broken.
The system is one that moves fast, has a lot of imperfections, and is very literally in its infancy. The fakes will undoubtedly get weeded out and exposed, and they will retain an audience of ‘non-thinkers’. But the community around a writer is getting content they find valuable, and they are doing so in the face of a Endless array of other options. It may be content you have no need for, but a lot of people say that about the Bible.
Attacking him or anyone else was not my intention at all. If my comment came out in the way, then that is, truly, the one thing I am sorry about in this situation.
Beat around the bush if you want Jamie – I think your ideas were sound, and I actually agree with much of it, but a majority of this came off as a personal attack:
Matt Chevy from Life Without Pants is someone that comes to mind. He used to be humble and actually really a cool guy to talk to, but with some relative success, we’ve seen a rise in this machine-like productivity that is supposedly “for the community” but I don’t buy it. I don’t buy it from him and I don’t buy it from a lot of people. He’s not the only person that does this, but he’s a prominent example. His compliments seem empty, but so many eat them up. His efforts seem noble, but my gut tells me that those are calculated efforts in order to reach some sort of goal.
I don’t care if that’s how you feel. You are entitled to it – but call a spade a spade – that’s an attack.
We’ve all been stroking each others egos since social media became something all the cool kids were doing. We didn’t want to piss anyone off for fear they’d blackmail us on Twitter. Clearly, the glory days are over. Carlos, hopefully your post sparked (yeah I went there) a change in the way we do things.
Give credit, where credit is due. Don’t agree with something? Speak up. But, please do it respectively though. If you’re just being asshole and looking for attention, most of us see right through you.
As social media becomes more mainstream, let’s treat like real life. Think about it, you don’t walk down the street and send emoticons to people. You don’t “like button” people’s thoughts. And you sure as hell don’t retweet or repeat things your friends say. You have a conversation and you argue. If we went around complimenting each other and self promoting ourselves all over the place our lives would get boring real fast.
P.S While reading all of these comments, I almost had anxiety attack in Starbucks. So intense, let’s hope this kind of debate continues elsewhere.
**STANDING OVATION** SAY IT GIRL!!
Glory days are over, let’s hope you’re right Jennie, it’d be fantastic.
63rd!
[Thought this was appropriate given the post]
It’s times like this that I’m happy to be somewhat of a surly asshole who knows that my personality will NEVER be a selling point to 90% of the people out there. So there’s no point in pushing or self-promoting anything as an extension of myself. Yes, I like to show off a bit just like anyone else does. But a tweet here or there and it ends. Because if I wanted business relationships, I’d build those. But I haven’t. I’ve built personal relationships with folks and (occasionally) done business with them.
Don’t forget, Mother Theresa still did TV interviews.
Amen brother, amen.
We all have different goals in social media. Hell, I even have different “goals” at different times. For instance, today I tweeted about my baked potato soup looking like mashed potatoes, and then later I asked people to tell me why they’re thankful for social media at a different point. Total opposite ends of the spectrum.
Some people are different than we are, and we aren’t going to agree with or like all of them. That’s life. As others said above, if someone is bothering you so much, stop paying attention to them. The unfollow/unsubscribe features exist for a reason. Yes, there is an overabundance of personal branding. I wrote a post about it right before David wrote his last week, and I definitely agree with a lot of what Carlos said in his original post. This is certainly a discussion that needs to be had, and I would like to think we could do so more respectfully.
As I said before in many replies: I’m done “moving along.” At least not on my blog. I do that constantly on my life. I acknowledge how difficult it is to make people realize when they are doing something wrong. But here, I want to say whatever I want (without calling people out because this is the internet, not my notepad).
Although I didn’t actually read Jamie’s post because it was too long, I do agree with her on the basis that from her small square of a picture, she looks fairly attractive. I did notice her use of “THIS NEEDS TO STOP” and by the caps I see that she means business.
World hunger is a problem
The recession in America is a problem
AIDS in Africa is a problem
Successful marketing is not a problem
Everyone seems to have this fantasy that people finding these “media whores” is stopping them from finding your own content. They are not taking anything away from you because you don’t have anything tangible for them to take away from. There is not a finite amount of attention in the world and everyone needs to steal a market share. So people found a way to support themselves and their families . Who will have the courage to out them and save their victims that they are MANIPULATING because they are so stupid and scared? Grow up.
Also, I think David Spinks is a pretty cool guy, eh writes lots of words and doesn’t afraid of anything
Thank you for saying this.
Fairly attractive, eh? Glad I have credibility based on my fairly attractive square photo. Thanks.
I don’t think that media whores are stopping anyone from getting to my content. I’m not a child that doesn’t like to share. That’s silly.
And, I can’t stand when people come in to a discussion and start talking about big global issues, in order to discount the value of the thread. The attention on this post is not taking away attention from world hunger, don’t you worry your pretty littl… oh wait, you don’t *have* an avatar, so I can’t even use that. Damn.
Manipulation exists. You’d be a fool to think it doesn’t. And, sometimes, you have to stand up to it. Not calling someone out on it is like saying we can’t question our political leaders, our policy makers, our media. Ignoring is easier and less confrontational. But, where’s the growth in that?
It’s much easier for me to ignore world hunger and the recession and for you to ignore it as well. But we stand up for what matters. And, at this moment, this is what mattered to me.
Pah, who am I kidding? Like you’d read this. You’re too busy staring at my HOT avatar.
well well well, you certainly turned my argument on its head. Out of respect for my better I read all of the posts and I must say I have to stand by my point. If “media whores” aren’t stopping people from getting to your content then how are they negatively affecting you to the point that this is “what matters to you”?
Of course manipulation exists, and in areas like politics and policy it has a serious consequences. This example however is very reminiscent of bringing up world hunger. Somebody promoting themselves is NOT a danger to anyone else, unless they happen to by trying to occupy the same space. In that sense, it is a matter of competition and is certainly not a cause to be up in arms about.
You talk about growth like it is something specific that we all need to be working towards, but what changes specifically are you looking for? How are these people stoping it? Your rant is abstract and if there is a tangible goal I am not able to see it.
Like i said, FAIRLY attractive. Although if you make me sound stupid again I might just fall in love…
It’s interesting that someone so eager to change the world can’t see how people would be upset about other people’s mistaken actions.
It’s interesting that someone who values ” just doers” over “talk-and-doers” is a “just talker”. Why does this have to turn ad hominem?
Hey, Jon, you know what’s even more interesting is that you are arguing over whether it is worth arguing over internet marketing tactics.
Kinda defeats the whole point of your first comment.
I take it you’re in love with me now.
Unfortunately no. You haven’t said anything remotely on topic. The question up for debate is whether self-promotion is a problem. I didn’t say that its not worth arguing about, just that your particular argument is baseless.
How could you make me look stupid without responding to anything I said in my second post, even though I asked questions that were simple and specific?
Not to say I’ve lost faith in you, I am a hopeless romantic after all
LOUD NOISES
Is it me or half of the comments have nothing to do with the original post?
I DON’T KNOW WHAT WE ARE YELLING ABOUT. (can we turn this into an Anchorman Quotefest?)
Dorothy Mantooth is a SAINT!
Did you hear that? BEARS. Now you’ve endangered the entire internet.
You ate a whole wheel of cheese? And you pooped in the refrigerator? I’m not even mad. That’s amazing.
+1 to everybody who contributed.
Carlos…60% of the time he’s right…all the time.
Alright, I’m not feeling so hot tonight so I’m going to make this really quick, but I want to add my two cents. I’ve skimmed through the comments, but I want to go back to Carlos’ original post while I can.
Carlos…Once upon a time you wrote a post (or maybe we just talked about it, memory’s a bit fuzzy) about people’s motivations in social media, describing (paraphrased) how some will be here to make genuine connections while some will be here to attain their goals of a business pursuit or whatever it may be. Neither reasons are wrong, but I always kind of thought that the two can sometimes blend, especially as bloggers, but my own personal motivation and the most pleasure I ever receive is in making those connections and being able to call so many people whom I may never have before had the possibility of “meeting” friends. That was my goal. It always has been and I’m pretty sure it always will be if only because that’s what’s important to me. It’s a personal decision that others may not agree with, but it’s what I believe.
I believe in social media for this purpose…There’s a lot of talk about community, but I think the strongest of those communities aren’t based on business models but based on the interactions you have with other people. That said, I fully believe in giving credit where credit is due, in wanting to help others feel good, encouraging them and rooting them on, in helping people out. I tweet links because I want to share it with the world, I comment because I have something to say or add and because I want to begin a direct dialogue with you to form that connection, I send emails and DMs and even the occasional tweet of appreciation for people and for their thoughts because I think that’s so important and life is way, way too short not to let others know exactly how you feel towards them. And that goes for the positive and negative, but most especially for the positive.
I *want* to make a fuss over people if they deserve it, because I think too often their seemingly quiet efforts can be ignored in favor of the glitz and glamor and lights, because I want their good work to be recognized — that work that makes you think, makes you feel, makes you believe. That work — even just through words — that make you think the world would be a better place for having read it or having met that person. I know there are so many people I’ve met that I can say that about. That’s social media for me, that’s what it’s about — genuine recognition for the things and the people that deserve it.
So much for a quick comment.
Why do I feel that only made a whit of sense in my mind?
Susan, you’re so personal online, that I know you’re as real as it gets.
There’s nothing fake about you.
Ugh, I am so late to this party.
This echoes what some people have already said, but in my experience sometimes people online bug the shit out of me and sometimes people online are amazing and I learn a ton. Sometimes I just laugh a lot, like I did while reading the comments section. I’ve probably felt this way about everyone online at some point.
All of those feelings are just life, whether it takes place on or offline. That’s not meant to discount this conversation, but I guess I don’t see much of a difference in people offending/annoying/faking it online vs. people doing it off. It’s going to happen, so just deal with it like you always have (which is different for everyone).
Also, wanted to throw in that I’ve met almost every major contributor to this thread in person or at least chatted with them extensively online/on skype etc. Most of you are a lot more fun IRL than on Twitter or your blogs. (Thanks for that.)
Maybe someone is tricking me or pulling the wool over my eyes, but as long as I’m under the illusion that my BS meter is still working, I’m happy.
Oh, and it would be really hilarious if any of you thought I was “the social media whore” because I’m such a bitch online
You’re kinda bitchy online. Much sweeter on skype
If being a Media Whore can get you your dream job or make you able to quit your job and work for yourself, I’ll co-sign it. I think those who are struggling with their careers and the means to their professional ends have a jaded view of social media and the participants. Figuring out your own path is what’s important, not dissecting what’s wrong with the system that you’re trying so desperately to be a part of.
Being transparent is hard. If you can be transparent and be a Media Whore, then you’re going to go places if you actually have ideas worth sharing.
Why don’t we talk about the content instead of the author(s)? Then again, I am a content whore.